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Running on Empty Caucus of US Democrats

 
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DickMcManus
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Joined: 12 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:17 am    Post subject: Running on Empty Caucus of US Democrats Reply with quote

see our facebook pages “Running on Empty Caucus of United States Democrats”

Running on Empty Caucus of United States Democrats

This is a group of Democrats who believe the end of cheap oil and natural gas and global climate change will result in an extreme disaster.

1. There are no sustainable energy sources that will rescue us at our current population levels and so we must reduce our population and HOW the it should be reduced is a question for civil society.

2. Population reduction must be a part of any plan to rationally deal with peak oil (the end of cheap oil, natural gas, and coal), global climate change, biological/species decline, and natural resource depletion.

3. Global climate change will only be mitigated with extremely stringent emissions policies that reduce consumption rates and this must be done before fossil fuels are depleted.

4. Our government and/or political system have no chance whatsoever to react soon enough to help us, but we still support Democrats in elections.
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Brent of Ghent
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. McManus- I'm in complete agreement with your goals and about 95% in agreement with your assessment of the situation (I think).

My reference for ideas around this issue is Dr. James Hansen's book, "Storms of My Grandchildren."

Dr. Hansen does say that current population levels are not sustainable and that much more population would effectively thwart any attempt to control climate change.

He does mention "fast-breeder", "4th generation" nuclear as a sustainable possibility for keeping a large percentage of the electrical generation functional. I realize this is controversial, and I'm not a nuclear expert. But Hansen does say the fast-breeders would run on existing waste and that waste emanating from fast-breeders would not have the extended half-lives.

And he goes into depth about "cap-and-trade" and how that would actually be a detriment in that it would be ineffective and, therefore, distract us from an effective program ("fee-and-dividend"); and that we don't have the time to waste on programs that will not help solve the problem.

I think there is one (if he survived the Nov. 2nd purge?) Dem in CT- I think his names Larson (?)- he's advocated for "fee-and-dividend".
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wartsttocs
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Population Control?!?!?!?!

And just who will be controlled?? The poor?? Brown people?? The vast majority of the people on the planet live simply and consume little. It is the pluto/kleptocracy that is responsible for most of the destruction of the planet's resources and current ecosystem. The millitary industrial complex is a prime example. Shutting that down will have the biggest impact on preserving life on Earth as we know it. Then again, if population control is your goal, the millitary industrial complex is your best friend. How about a nuclear war?? That will control population. Maybe another genocide or two would help out a lot in controling the population.

Want to control the population? Let it be voluntary. Kill yourself or sterilize yourself. Don't decide for others whether they live/die and/or procreate.
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DickMcManus
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent of Ghent
Thanks for your comments. You can see from the comments by the other guy herein, our caucus is causes people to jump into wacko or psycho-talk mode.

I don't know HOW the population should be reduced. I think that is a question for civil society. I made the choice in 1981 to only have one child because population growth worried me.
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Don Smith
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The complexities of population control are very challenging.
Georg Borgstrom in his book The Hungry Planet posits a limit to biomass, that is, the amount of living organisms which may be sustained upon the Earth.This biomass is a relative number, though a general amount may be described by general averages in sunlight, oceanic current actions and other planetary controls upon plant and animal growth.
There are very high energy use foods such as Danish ham, which uses energy in great amounts to produce an export item which at every stage of production uses energy which could be much more efficiently used to produce vegetable proteins.
Massive pork production by a small nation such as Denmark is entirely dependent upon energy uses which are costly beyond mere dollars and cents. The social cost is seldom found on the books of the corporate ledgers of any large company.
This wasteful energy use by animal protein producers is one of the largest problems facing a rational solution to hunger in the world.
Another is the absence of infrastructure.
During the Irish Famine, the efforts to send food to the rural localities in most need were stifled by the absence of a transportation net capable of carrying the foods to those most in need,
This occured again in India during the great famine during WWII. The small efforts at relief were hindered by the primitive roads and trails which were the main routes of the population in the agricultural societies which were in place.
I have read studies which show that food may not be the problem for the world if we stop the dependence upon animal protein production. This may be so, but it is certain that animal protein is a luxury which only the nations with cheap energy might indulge.
The near total absence of large fishes in the world's oceans is another symptom of misuse by corporate entities.To change policy on fisheries is another issue which must be dealt with and it seems unlikely that it will be done by a social system which is built upon profit.
I have no quick fix for these questuions, I do know that each problem can be defined and policies developed which might address them.
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DickMcManus
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard Heinberg author of the books [b][i]Powerdown[/i] [/b]and [i][b]The Pary's Over[/b][/i] states that the MAJORITY of petroleum geologists state that we are running out of cheap oil and natural gas.

And here we go with scientist telling people information, yet people don't believe what they have to say, just like Global Climate Change. Jesse Ventura did a TV program today claiming Climate change is a conspiracy, yet the majority of Climate scientists are extremely worried about the man made causes. The CIA intelligence analysis Directorate has already written: Global Trends 2015: Top read the whole report:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/globaltrends2015/index.html

I agree we will have to reduce our consumption to soften the impact of [b]Peak Everything. [/b]

Another good book, is [b][i]The Long Emergency[/i][/b] by James Kuntsler. He focuses on the doom and gloom that no sustainable energy source will rescue us in the short run. It may soften the disaster and hardship people will suffer.



We really have reached Peak of some things, and most other things will follow soon

A summary of Richard Heinberg’s new book, dated Sept. 2010

A financial system built on staggering amounts of debt and the anticipation of both unending economic growth and absurdly high returns on investments can only work if labor is always getting cheaper, and supplies of energy and resources are always growing—and even then occasional hiccups are to be expected.

As soon as economic activity advances, oil prices will again spike, causing yet another financial crunch. In July 2008 oil prices spiked 50 percent higher the global airline industry went into a tailspin and the auto industry suffered.

The increasing scarcity of non-energy minerals

Chris Clugston analyzed 57 non-renewable natural resources (NNRs) in terms of production levels and price. “We are not about to ‘run out’ of any NNR; we are about to run ‘critically short’ of many.” (Increasing Global Nonrenewable Natural Resource Scarcity by Chris Clugston

What we are really talking about are the inevitable consequences of the tendency of resource extractors to take the low-hanging fruit first, and to leave difficult, expensive, low-quality, and environmentally ruinous resources to be extracted later.

Geologists and others who routinely deal with mineral ores and fossil fuels commonly speak of a “resource pyramid”: the capstone represents the easily and cheaply extracted portion of the resource; the next layer is the portion of the resource base that can be extracted with more difficulty and expense, and with worse environmental impacts; while the remaining bulk of the pyramid represents resources unlikely to be extracted under any realistic pricing scenario. The optimist may assume that the entire pyramid will eventually be usable, but this is simply not realistic. We have built a society on the basis of cheap energy and materials. At some point, as we move down the layers of the resource pyramid, rising commodity prices and increasing environmental cleanup costs (think Deepwater Horizon) will undercut both demand for resources and economic activity in general. As that happens, we see not just higher prices, but more volatile prices.
Alternative non-fossil energy sources will come on line, but not quickly enough to keep up with the depletion of oil, coal, and gas. We will find we don’t have enough cheap fuel to keep the airline industry aloft.
With oil production peaking, climate changing, and fresh water, soil, fish, and minerals depleting at alarming rates, the computer-based scenarios of the 1972 Limits to Growth study seem thoroughly and frighteningly confirmed. Decades of expansion fueled by consumption and debt are ending; the time has come to pay bills, tighten belts, and prepare for a future of economic downsizing.


We will probably never see aggregate activity higher than that in 2007. The Asian economies of China and India will be brief hold-outs from this general trend; but, as coal supplies in that part of the world tighten, even the “Asian tigers” will soon be forced to confront limits to growth.

Forecast is for China’s continuing boom to be very short-lived. As I argued in my recent book Blackout, there are hard limits to China’s coal supplies (the world as a whole will experience peak coal consumption within the next two decades, but China will get there sooner than most other countries because of its extraordinary consumption rate—currently three times that of the U.S.). Since China has no viable short-term alternatives to coal to fuel its industrial machine, by 2020 or so (and possibly much sooner) that country will have joined the rest of the world in a process of economic contraction that will continue until levels of consumption can be maintained by renewable resources harvested at sustainable rates.

World population growth may likewise continue for a shorter period than is commonly believed, if global food production and economic activity peak soon in response to declining energy availability.

In short, the world has changed in a fundamental way in the past three years, and the reverberations will continue for decades to come. Indeed, we have just seen the beginning of an overwhelming transformation of life as we’ve known it.

The range of possible of the future ahead of us is still wide, encompassing everything from (at one end of the scale) graceful industrial decline leading to a mature, sustainable world community of re-localized cultures, to (at the other end) human extinction, or something very close to it.

Scapegoating of nations, religions, and ethnicities will lead to global violence.

Addressing the underlying problems of resource depletion and environmental degradation (the death of the oceans, collapsing agricultural production due to climate change and desertification, etc.) are problems that warfare will only exacerbate.

If we plan for contraction, we are likely to do a much better job of transitioning to a sustainable level of population and consumption than if we are still planning for growth.

This means re-localizing much economic activity. We must aim also to shore up basic support services, education, and cultural benefits, while de-emphasizing economic activity that entails non-essential consumption of resources.

Contraction in population levels and consumption rates doesn’t sound like much fun, but a few decades of improvement in Gross National Happiness—potentially achievable at least in five or six of the above metrics—should be an attractive notion to most people.

For the rest of the story see:
http://richardheinberg.com/220-peak-everything
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Don Smith
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of interest are the various new forms of engineering solutions never mentioned by the msm.
The field of ceramics holds great promise in replacing many physical applications where high temperature resistance is needed.
I read of a team in Japan using molecular compression techniques which may serve as the basis for the plasma bottle needed for fusion reactors.
There are many more high tech systems and ideas which hold great promise for needs now in place simply because the patents and profits are locked into an archaic system of social organisation.
_________________
" A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends."- Lenin
Patriotism is a manifestation of the Stockholm Syndrome.
"How does it become a man to behave toward this American government to-day? I answer that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it."
-Thoreau
"Information is the currency of Democracy." Jefferson
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